Ronnie James Dio is a legend. Pure and simple. After 25-plus years of rocking audiences throughout the world, not a soul can argue with that statement. Whether fronting Rainbow (with Ritchie Blackmore on guitar), Black Sabbath (as Ozzy Osbourne's original replacement) or his own band simply called Dio, the man has become a legend in his own time. It seems only fitting that his latest Mayhem Records release, a live offering entitled "Inferno: Last In Live," finally documents the contributions Ronnie James Dio has made to the world of rock and roll. Not only highlighting tunes from Dio, but Rainbow and Black Sabbath as well, "Inferno" is the definitive testament to the impact Dio has made. Ronnie recently called WRSE-FM, in Elmhurst, IL, where I was the metal music director before my graduation. He was very optimistic about future Dio plans, and even offered insight on a summer tour in the works. I recently got the chance to once again see Dio play live, this time at Wings Stadium in Kalamazoo, MI!!!. As for the interview.......
Q: Ron, how's it goin?
A: It's going great, Brian....
Q: So you just came off your tour?
A: Actually, we've been home for a little while. We finished just around Christmas time, we had come back from South America. We'd done a tour with the Scorpions, Bruce Dickinson and Jason Bonham. That finished just about Christmas time, so we really haven't been doing anything, other than writing and preparing our lives since then.
Q: So everything went well, I take it?
A: Yes
Q: The album, "Inferno: Last In Live" sounds great....
A: Thank you, well, it's because of the great place we did it, too.....
Q: Yes! You recorded a good portion of it at Jackhammer's in Schaumburg....
A: That's right
Q: How long have you wanted to do a live Dio album?
A: I really wanted to do one, and I suggested it to the record company, after we had done the "Last In Line" album, which would be the second one for the Dio band. That's the time I thought, since "Last In Line" and "Holy Diver" were really big, successful hits for us, it made sense for us to capture what the band was doing at that time. But the record company (Warner Bros.) felt, for whatever reason, that they wanted to continue with studio albums, so we never really got the chance to do a live one. And the sad part about that is we never got the original band down in a live situation for a live album. When we signed with Mayhem, the first thing we asked was if they'd be interested in a live album, we'd be touring for about a year and a half, being very consistent, and there are a lot of great places to do this at, and they said, "YEAH!" Let's do it!" So it was just a matter of having a record company who really wanted you to do it and who let you have your reigns. I think that, in retrospect now, Warner Bros. is probably pretty angry that they don't have a live Dio album that they can flog to everybody these days. But at least we got a chance to do it, and it was, again, down to the record company more that anything.
Q: Like I said, it's a great record, I think it covers your career very well, a great retrospective of the whole Dio career, even getting a couple of the Sabbath tracks in there, as well. Just want to switch gears a bit here now and talk a little about "Angry Machines," your Mayhem debut. It was the first Dio album in quite a while, a couple of years, at least. Was there a particular reason for the hiatus, did it maybe have something to do with switching labels?
A: Well, there was the album before it, "Strange Highways," but I think the reason things took longer is because we toured longer. We started touring for a year, a year and a half at a time, which meant that after that year and a half we had to prepare for another six months or so to write and go in and do another album.. So I think that touring became a bit more important than making records. That probably made it seem as if all of us had gone away for a while. Plus the fact that we were on the last leg of our contract with Warner Bros. with the "Strange Highways" album, and I think that they did the same as they did with "Holy Diver," they threw it against the wall and they thought, "If it sticks, well, we're going to be able to do something with this band." I think they must have been pleasantly surprised by "Holy Diver," in that it suddenly became this blockbuster album that they didn't even know about. I produced the thing myself, and in fact, toward the end of the making of that record, finally someone from Warner Bros. turned up and said, "We didn't know you were doing this," and I'm thinking, "Oh yeah, nice one, guys!" But then again, they obviously were very happy with the success of it, and I think the last album was much the same way. Let's face it, the hard rock/heavy metal trend was going down the tubes at this particular point anyway, so that didn't give it as much attention as perhaps it deserved, and the record label was thinking it was the last album it was going to have from us, so they were like, "Let's just put it out and go away." So I think it made it seem as if we had gone away, it didn't get nearly the marketing push that the records before it did. But as far as far as "Angry Machines" goes, it really didn't take us long to do at all, it was really a six or seven month process in writing and recording it. In fact, recording it only took five weeks total, in recording, mix it and master it.
Q: I think it's one of your best albums to date....
A: Well, I think so too, I think it's so much more modern from the start. It proves that we listen to the people around us, the younger players, and you have to, not only is that fashionable, but that's taking music to a different place, and that's certainly what we always wanted to do. We never wanted to stay in one place and mark time and just stand there. If you don't listen to what's going on around, you're stupid. But if you carry it too far, and you jump on some bandwagon, that's where you lose you're audience. You've got to be what you've always been, that's what people expect you to be, so you can't be too drastic in what you do. I think the "Angry Machines" album was very confusing to the base Dio fans who always expect you to do the next "Holy Diver" or the next "Last In Line," and we continue not to do that, because first we have to please ourselves. If we were in this just for selling records, and not caring about ourselves and the pride we have in doing them, we'd be jumping on every bandwagon on Earth, and who knows what we would be? But we stuck to it through all these years, and did try to be a bit more modern. I'm very proud of the "Angry Machines" album, but again I think it confused some people, I really think it did, and I think that's something we should learn from, as well. That doesn't mean that the next album we do is going to be....
Q: "Holy Diver, Part II? "
A: Oh, of course not, it wouldn't be, I'd never want it to be that! It would be devastating to me for anyone to accuse us of being a retro band, because that's not what we are, that's not what we ever want to be. But the next album certainly will have some of the things in it that are, perhaps, traditions from what we did before. Which doesn't mean that the next album is going to be nothing like "Angry Machines" and only old stuff, it won't be. It'll have to be a concept album, and that's what it will be. If it's a concept album, then it'll have a reason to do those kinds of things, to do old, to do new, to do static and sensible things. The next album should please a lot more people, I think, because it will cover a lot more ground.
Q: You talk about keeping up with yourself and doing what you do best, and calling "Angry Machines" a more modern album, but I notice the Dio trademark all over it. Some of the song titles and lyrics sound like classic Dio to me. If someone said to me, "Institutional Man," that sounds to me like a Dio story/song, albeit set in a more modern frame of time and mind. Some of the other interesting song titles: "Double Monday," "Big Sister," "Don't Tell The Kids, " the subject matter may be more modern, but the classic Dio order is there, telling the stories through the music.
A: It's because a lot of the things I'm doing are dealing more with the real world than a lot of fantasy things. I mean, there are no dragons and demons and witches and wizards on that album. I'm dealing more with social attitudes, because for such a long period of time I talked about dreams, people having dreams, and dreams coming true if you work hard enough, etcetera, etcetera. etcetera. But if you look around today, and you see people with PH. D.'s standing in line to get jobs at McDonald's to flip a hamburger. So what good did it do? What good is it to go out there and have dreams when your dreams don't come true? It seemed that the world became that for a long period of time, and that was right around the time we started to do the "Dehumanizer" album with (Black) Sabbath when we got back together again for a while. And I just needed to start writing about more realistic subjects at the time, because I couldn't say to people, "Have a dream and it will come true" because it wouldn't, it couldn't at that time. So I wanted to talk about social issues. "Institutional Man," which is about the prison population; "Big Sister," which is about the strength of the women's movement and the way that the males, especially white males, have become the "endangered species" at this particular moment; and "Double Monday, " which is just about the horrible, work-a-day world that we have to go and live in, and then when that's over what do you have to look forward to? Just the same work-a-day world. So they're all social comments, and things that I have been influenced by by talking to people, by looking at the world for what it really is, and I just couldn't, in my heart and in my conscience, tell people what a wonderful world it was, because it wasn't.
Q: You've been known to play with some great guitarists, Ritchie Blackmore, Tony Iommi, Vivian Campbell and Rowan Robertson, to name a few. But now you've come across a guy named Tracy G. Where did you find him, and what's his story with Dio?
A: Tracy had played before with our drummer, Vinnie Appicie, and our bass player, Jimmy Bain, in a band called World War Three. When we were putting the Dio band back together, Vinnie suggested Tracy to me, and said, "You're going to love this guy, this is the guy who plays like the guitar players you like." My favorite player to play with has always been Tony Iommi, just because of the strength and the guts he has, besides the incredible rhythm, sound and feel that he has. And Tracy was from that same school, plus Tony had riffs coming out of his ears, and Tracy's exactly the same. I just found that simpatico player, and of course as a person, he's just a sweet guy. It was just very right for us, he's a guy who knew his sound as soon as you heard him, he really knows his instrument. We've auditioned a lot of people before who just didn't' have a clue as to what they were doing inside of a band, but Tracy was perfect, he was just the absolute perfect person to write with, especially because we didn't want to do things that were going to be old and retro. We could have gone out and looked for a player from the old days, a guy who played as fast as lightening, but was completely un-understandable by the fans who really don't understand the quick playing. But that era has kinda gone, so Tracy was the perfect one for us, he played with great riffs, great sound, and wanted to be in this band.
Q: It sounds like you found a winner there....
A: Absolutely
Q: Especially live, I remember seeing him at Jackhammer's, and it was just a great show, he played his heart and soul out....
A: As he always does....
Q: You can't ask for more...
A: ...I think sometimes we force him to play too long (laughter), which we've stopped doing. I think you can hear that on the record, we cut the solo down quite a bit. And it's difficult for Tracy because he's had all these people that you mentioned before in line to be compared with. And you're going to get people that were in love with Viv's style, or Rowan's, or Tony Iommi's, or Ritchie Blackmore's, or all the players that I've played with, and they'll compare Tracy to them. "He's not as good as so-and-so,' or "Why doesn't he play like so-and-so?" Well, the point is, that's exactly what we didn't want, we wanted someone who was gong to be his own man, with his own identity, which Tracy does, and Tracy's a lot more modern player. Rather than play one of these blinding solos, Tracy would rather blow you up with his sound. That just happens to be a bit more of a modern attitude, and that's what I like about Tracy, he brought something different to this band that what other people expected. So I couldn't be happier than having Tracy.
Q: Now you've mentioned Tony Iommi quite a few times. I'm a big Black Sabbath fan, and as a matter of fact, the biggest reason I picked up your first record was because you were in Sabbath, and I decided to check out what you had to offer. Just a few questions about Sabbath now, do you ever keep in touch with Tony Iommi or Terry "Geezer" Butler?
A: We do, but Tony's like six thousand miles away from me, and Geezer lives in St. Louis sometimes, so I speak to them through other people because we don't get a chance to see each other. I'm in LA and they're miles away, but we do speak through other people, "Hey Ronnie, Tony said to say `Hi'" "Well, tell Tony I said `Hello'" and it just passes back and forth that way. But as far as a lot of direct contact, we don't have any, but there's nothing to read into that, we still remain friends to this day/
Q: Can understand the distance between each other makes it difficult, but it's good you've remained friends. You also mentioned earlier the "Dehumanizer" album, it seemed like Black Sabbath was coming back together again, and going very well, and then came the infamous Ozzy concert in Coasta Mesa, CA. Any thoughts on that and the things that went down at that point?
A: I'm just sorry that we didn't have enough communication skills to deal with the problem. I told them before the tour started that when I was told we were going to be changing in our own show in LA for opening for Ozzy, I told them I wasn't going to do it. So we did the whole tour in America, which was about two and a half months or so, and nothing was mentioned until about a week before the show, when they said, "Well, you're really gong to do them, aren't you?" And I said I wouldn't in the first place, and I'm not going to do them now, so they ran around and panicked, and finally got Rob (Halford) to do the show. But I just did not want to be a part of what I knew was going to happen, which was the announcement of a reunion of Black Sabbath. Why should I be there? Why should I, after giving up the Dio band, why should I say, "I'm in Sabbath, but here I am breaking the bottle across the bough of the ship" as the good ship Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and Bill goes off into sunset while I'm sitting there, holding my johnson? That just wasn't in the cards for me, I wanted no part of it, and I said I wanted no part of it. So I didn't take part in it, and that became a situation where, obviously to me, money was much more to them than our careers. I thought they had more pride than that, apparently they didn't. But I just stuck to my guns and, said I wouldn't do it, and I didn't. So that meant the bust up on that particular end of it. But as far as the album goes, I thought the album was brilliant, I loved "Dehumanizer," I thought it was a great album, and again, it was an album that was not "Heaven And Hell," which is what everyone expected it to be. It was much more modern than that, more modern subjects, and I thought the playing was great. I think it's one of the most underestimated albums I've ever been involved with. I think someone's going to discover it down the line one day and think, "Wow, this was a great album!" It was the bust up of the Sabbath thing was the same as it always was. I should have known. Leopards don't change their spots, neither they or I. We are what we are, we were what we were, and we become what we become, and it just wasn't going to work, there was no communication. My attitude has always been total dedication to a band, I've always been in a band, not been a soloist or a solo performer. Just as people refer to me doing "solo projects," well, I've never done a solo project, I've always been in a band, I've only been as good as the people around me, and the same went with Sabbath. But when I felt we were being hurt from a pride standpoint, I wanted no part of that, so that was the end of it. But that's OK, we made a great album, and I'm proud of it, and I'll always stand behind it.
Q: Now, for the future plans, you're starting writing a new album?
A: Well, we'll tour first, we'll be out probably by the end of May. We'll probably do three months, it depends on what develops, there's a lot of "tour talk:" out there, a lot of Iron Maiden/Dio talk out there, that's a possibility. But at the moment, we're not considering that, because things take too long. we have our own lives to deal with, and if you wait around for someone else to make a decision, usually it never comes and you've suffered, so we don't do that. We've booked some shows for ourselves to do. If the Maiden thing happens, it'll probably happen in June, July, August, something like that, so at the end of the day, we might be out there for four months. So we'll be touring, and then when we get done, we'll start writing more toward the conceptual attitude that I wanted to do.. So that'll take us a bit longer than normal, because concept writing is a lot harder. We're supposed to realize an album in February1999, it may be a little bit later than that due to the touring commitment, but those are the plans, and there'll definitely be another one.
Q: So off the top of your head, do you think you'll hit Jackhammer's again?
A: I think, at the moment, the show that was booked was at the Vic Theater. I know that Jackhammer's had given an offer as well, but that's all business stuff, I only hear these things extemporaneously, I'm not a business person and I try to stay as far away as I can from that, I try not to make these decisions at all, because I don't want to be responsible for someone being pissed of at me.
Q: The Vic is a great place for a show, too.
A: The Vic is a Great place, the last time we played there was absolutely wonderful, I had one of the best times of my life playing the Vic, the audience was great, the place was stuffed, it was wonderful. But Schaumburg was great, too. Jackhammer's was great because it was. like, all these people had waited around for like seven hours or something. God, I mean, we didn't go on until I think twelve o'clock, and there were, what, two bands before us? (Mayhem label mates My Dying Bride, who were KILLER live, as well as a local act)
Q: And we were all over at Rolling Stone in Norridge, in the pouring, cold rain, waiting to meet you, too.
A: Right!
Q: That was a thrill for me, I got a picture with you, I show it to everyone, so it was cool!
A: There ya go, well, we'll have to take another one, do an updated picture!
Q: That's right! Now just one last thing, maybe think of this as a suggestion. My favorite song you recorded with Black Sabbath was "Neon Knights." Do you think you might add that to your set on this tour? Hint! Hint!
A: Well, we have done it quite a bit on tours before this. I think what happens is you get to the point where we've done something for the last four tours, so we do something different, and you can't win anyway because everyone's got a favorite. But sure, it's a definite possibility, maybe we could take "The Mob Rules" out and stick that one in. The thing about "Neon Knights" is that's a son of a bitch to sing, depending on where it is in the set. As you know, we don't do a lot of talking between the numbers, it's pretty much all music, and it can get to be pretty difficult after you've done an hour and forty-five minutes of screaming your lungs out. So "Neon Knights," depending on where we put it, if we can put it in a good place, I'd love to do it again. It's a shame that we didn't do it, because it wasn't on this album, but it's on (Black Sabbath's) "Live Evil," so I guess you get that. But yeah, I'll certainly keep that in mind, but we've got a lot of other things we want to do this year, some things we haven't done before, or at least haven't done for years and years and years. So it'll be a pretty different set, we don't want to go out and do the same set people heard on the live album, because they've already heard that one. So we're going to change it around a bit here and there, make it a bit more interesting and exciting, and perhaps more surprising.
Q: Great! Thanks Ronnie for the call! It was great chatting with you, take care of yourself and we look forward to seeing ya soon!
A: You're welcome, it's my pleasure Brian, take care. Bye now!
Special thanks to Mayhem Records, Kevin "Chainsaw" Rose, Paula Hogan, Wendy Dio, Niji Management and, of course, Ronnie James Dio for making this interview possible!!!
Need more DIO? Check out RonnieJamesDio.com!!